Log of IRC channel #scientology, roughly 13:30-14:30 EST,
Wednesday, September 13, 1995

<cor2> hi all, steven is standing next to me 
<Sirilyan> hey suppressives!
<mirele> cor!
<mirele> kewl./
<mirele> I knew there was a reason why I came home.
<mirele> yo, sir.
<bivalve> Hi cor, Hi steven!
<bivalve> Steven, how do you like Amsterdam?
* Sirilyan waves to cor and steven - my heroes! :)
*** cor2 is now known as fishman
<Sherilyn> HI cor, hi Steven!
<Sirilyan> uh, unless anyone minds, i'm logging right now..
<mirele> no, please do sir.
<mirele> there are people who would like to be here now but 
aren't.
<bivalve> Log away
<fishman> hi, sherilyn.  Yes, Amsterday is great --- we had a big 
win here!
<Sherilyn> Steven, you certainly have stirred those scientologists 
on a.r.s. into a frenzy!
<mirele> Steven, andy milne is frothing at the mouth.
<bivalve> BigWin<tm>
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<Sherilyn> Has the church announced anything official yet?
<Sirilyan> okay, log is started now..
<fishman> there was a ten minute local newscast where they 
featured leisa goodman and myself, and she was asked if I was 
an enemy of the Church.
<fishman> Leisa Goodman said, "Well, he is certainly not our 
friend!"
<mirele> and she said...?
<Neil> hi all
<mirele> steven: HAHAHAH!
<Sherilyn> :)
<mirele> hi neil.
<rnewman> were you both in the same studio?
<bivalve> Goodman, what a way with words.
<bivalve> Hi neil
<Neil> what are you all talking about ?/
<fishman> no, I was at the offices at xs4all and Leisa was at the 
Amsterdam Org.
<Sherilyn> Could someone change the topic, pls?
*** rnewman changes topic to "Steve Fishman is here live!  Only 
on IRC"
*** mirele changes topic to "Steven Fishman is here, NOW!"
<Sherilyn> Thanks
<mirele> sorry ron.
<Neil> what !!! THE mr Fishman ??
<mirele> you can change it back.
<rnewman> no, it's fine.
<fishman> hi, ron.  It is good to finally talk to you.
<rnewman> Steve...how likely is it that all these events might 
eventually cause Leisa to blow?
<bivalve> Neil, the very one.
<Neil> fishman: wow, I really admire you !!
<rnewman> I hope you're getting to see the rest of Amsterdam: the 
canals, the redlight district, the Van Gogh museum, etc. etc.
<fishman> The local DSA (Director of Special Affairs), Julia Rijnvis 
(pronounced Rhine-viss may be RPF'd but I don't think Leisa is 
too much at risk, although neither one of them were able to 
"handle Holland" and stop the Dutch Protest all week.
<mirele> steven: nice to hear.
<Neil> fishman: aren't you afraid that the church might get you 
over the net ??
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<rnewman> steve: no my question was whether Leisa or Julia 
could be induced to leave the church altogether after realizing 
what a mess has been made.
<Neil> fishman: you're coming to holland ??
<fishman> I like Amsterdam a lot.  I did get to see the Amsterdam 
Org, and also the ships on the harbor.
<rnewman> he is _in_ Holland, right now!
<cor1> fishman already is in holland :)
<Neil> oops
<mirele> steven: I have a question for you.
<Neil> cor1: oh dat wist ik niet :)
<mirele> it's kind of an off-the-wall one.
<fishman> I have been attacked and sued before, so, no, I am not 
afraid.  I think the course of litigation will take a new turn now 
that Scientology refuses to produce their copyrights and the 
originals of the OT levels.
<fishman> What is your question?
<idlechyk> hi fishman :>
<mirele> you know how Michael Jackson is in the hospital?  Went 
there because he fainted and had heart problems?  Could he 
have gotten that way from the Purification Rundown
<Neil> fishman: do you think you'll stand a chance against the 
church ??
<Neil> fishman: I mean, they're really nasty 
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<fishman> The Church has twenty million dollars a year set aside 
to fight its enemies, but I believe that anyone has a chance of 
bringing out important issues in the course of the battle.
<mirele> netsplit.
<Neil> WHAT ?!?!?! 20 million bucks for lawsuits???
<fishman> Michael Jackson may be allergic to niacin.  Sometimes 
toxic doses of niacin are administered on the Purif.  I remember 
it made me turn purple and gave me heat flashes when I did the 
Purif.
<rnewman> Steve, what can you tell us personally about any of 
the following people:  Cory Brennan, Andrew Milne, Kendrick 
Moxon, Helena Kobrin, Leisa Goodman
<mirele> Thanks, Steven.
<Sirilyan> uh, someone start logging this as well incase *i* split 
away, and i may need to get back to work in a bit too..
<fishman> Twenty million dollars every year to fight lawsuits, pay 
attorneys, fly Leisa Goodman around the world, and maybe 
even to keep Andy Milne running the Dead Agent Club.
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<Neil> fishman: is that how a "church" functions ??
<Neil> fishman: I mean, it's just all crap
<fishman> well, I have always said that Scientology is a 
business, not a Church.  many countries agree with this 
assessment.
* idlechyk is logging, don't worry sirl.
<Sherilyn> I have to pop down now so my kids can do some 
Christmas cards.
<Sherilyn> See you all.   Nice meeting you Steven
<mirele> Steven: I'd like to know how many attorneys are working 
for the Co$ at any time.  And do you know if they work for the co$ 
on a contingency or hourly fee arrangement?
<bivalve> Bye Sherilyn
<Neil> fishman: a friend of mine got dragged along in the 
Kalverstraat in A'dam, to do a "personalitytest"
<fishman> Thank you Sherilyn.  Nice talking to you too.  Please 
visit my home page.
* mirele is trying to figure out how fast the co$ can run through 
$20mill
<Sirilyan> idle: merci, tu m'fais une service.
<mirele> bye sherilyn
<idlechyk> $20 million doesn't seem like nearly enough, based on 
the number of enemies they have ...
<Neil> fishamn: but he found out that it was the church so he ran 
out of the building a.s. as possible :)
<fishman> it costs a lot to file suits, especially in Federal court.  
<mirele> yes: have to put up security bonds.
<fishman> I don't think they would be denied extra funding if they 
asked the IAS for it.
<rnewman> Steve: have  you had any personal interactions with 
either Andrew Milne or Cory Brennan?  I'd like to know what kind 
of people these really are.
<mirele> fishman: ah.
<mirele> or Helena K or Moxon?
<Neil> fishman: when will the lawsuit be held ??
<fishman> I never met Andy Milne or Cory Brennan or this new 
one "Glind."  Now Moxon is a very ruthless kind of guy.  In 
Scientology Tone Scale terms, very 1.1 and Helena Kobrin is 
between 1.1 and 1.5.  Neither one of them is willing to 
compromise on anything
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<mirele> fishman: ick.  
<mirele> I hate those kind of attorneys.
<rnewman> OK...how about Leisa Goodman, Earle Cooley, and 
Lynn Farney (the guy who threatened Jeff Jacobsen)?
<fishman> My lawsuit for malicious prosecution, my 
whistleblower action against the IRS to overturn the tax 
exemption, my briefing to unseal the upper levels, or my third 
party intervention in the Lerma case?  Which one?
<Neil> fishman: the very first :)
<fishman> Leisa Goodman I have only seen on TV (today) and on 
her home page on the Internet.
<Neil> who is this leise goodman? (sorry, but I'm not THAT 
up-to-date on the subject)
<bivalve> Neil Leisa Goodman is a Public Relations operative for 
the OSA / Co$
<fishman> Earle Cooley is a gruff bulldog who is very impatient 
and rude in Court.  Not much of a diplomat.  Lynn Farny is 
typical OSA; very inflexible and unwavering in his viewpoints.
<Neil> bivalve: so she works for....???
<rnewman> how about Warren McShane?
<bivalve> Neil, the Church of Scientology
<fishman> Leisa Goodman is an OSA spokesperson, originally 
from New Zealand, who currently operates the Church of 
Scientology Home Page on the Internet.  She is the "official" 
voice of Scientology, unlike Milne, who just works for Freedom 
Magazine.
<mirele> Steven: what do you think is the internal attitude towards 
all the "Big Wins" lately?  What kind of attitude do you think 
pervades the upper levels (the ones who would know) of $cn?
<Neil> bivalve + fishamn: ah, thanx :)
<Neil> where is this homepage??
<bivalve> www.theta.com
<fishman> Warren McShane was supposed to come to Holland to 
have a private meeting with Karin Spaink and Felipe Rodriguez, 
but they called it off after friends of theirs and I cautioned 
against it.
<idlechyk> yeah, what do you think the atmosphere is like at OSA 
headquarters?
<Neil> can I post any messages ??
<rnewman> oh, Warren never arrived in the netherlands?
<mirele> steven: very good thing to do.
<fishman> My home page is at http://www.xs4all.nl/~fishman
<rnewman> I didn't know you had a page!  hold on....
<rnewman> wow, so that is what you look like!!!!!!!
<fishman> I think the war room at OSA is very much in a frenzy.  
They have a lot of new crisis issues to deal with; not knowing 
how to produce the copyright transfers to RTC because they 
were improperly notarized by Miscavige, which is clearly a 
conflict of interest
<fishman> Because he is also the head of RTC.
<rnewman> is there any shred of truth in Milne's claim that you 
fabricated an entry in Who's Who?
<fishman> I look a lot different that on the Church's Dead Agent 
Fishman Home Page at http://www.theta.com/fishman/
<rnewman> LOVE that photo, especially the tshirt.
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<bivalve> Yes, you sure do.  Color photo, for one.
<Neil> fishman: will you come again on this channel ??
<idlechyk> love the page, fishman!
<idlechyk> much nicer than the theta.com one.
<rnewman> hey, I never saw this stuff about Teegeeack before.
<fishman> In 1984, my wife Jaime sent that entry in to Who's Who 
in Technology Today, as a joke.  We have a collection of about 
ten books at home, nearly all her entries.  She enjoyed joking 
with the vanity publishers because they publish anything.  
<fishman> thank you, idlechyk
*** idlechyk is now known as lrkrchyk
<rnewman> you joker and degrader, you!
<lrkrchyk> i thought the who's who entry was pretty obviously a 
joke :> i guess milne and i have different senses of humour.
<fishman> So Scientology knew about this because I once 
mentioned it in a sec check, and they reviewed my PC folder 
again and dug it up.  But they got the year wrong, and the 
purpose wrong.
<Neil>  bye everyone !:)
<fishman> Yes, I remember CS 100, on Jokers and Degraders.  I 
had to review that a few times in my ethics cycles.
<rnewman> I wish I could see Julia's reaction to this page (has 
anyone told her yet?)
<mirele> steven: you were told by a Scientologist that Jesus 
Christ was a later life cycle of Xenu?  Wow.
<mirele> wish we could get some documentation about that, with 
El Tubbardo saying the actual words.
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<fishman> Russell Means and I wrote to each other about the 
Teegeeack origin.  He is an expert on Indian etymology and 
origins.
<rnewman> someone sent me email asking for more info about 
"Lonesome Squirrel"
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<rnewman> Milne really went over the top comparing you to a 
Serbian war criminal
<mirele> yes, steven, is that going to end up on the net soon?
<rop> I saw julia mondaynight in De Melkweg and I she looked 
horrified. We've met her before, and she's always been smiling 
and friendly, but monday she was pale and grey. She's going to 
RPF, most probably.
<fishman> Yes, I was also told not only that Christ was Xenu, but 
that Wollersheim was Xenu, which must have also made him 
Christ!  In the Battle of L.A., I raided the garbage cans of Charlie 
O'
<lrkrchyk> hi rop!
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<fishman> Reilly in order to find incriminating evidence on 
Wollersheim.
<mirele> ron really went over the top telling milne to go to hell.
<bivalve> Hi ralfi
<rnewman> (hmm, does Julia have an email address?  I want to 
tell her something....)
<fishman> Do you mean Julia Rijnvis, the DSA Amsterdam?  I 
never heard that she is on the net.
<rnewman> yeah, that Julia
<Sirilyan> fishman: the Battle of L.A.?
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<Holistic> lo
<rop> No, she's not. She has a fax, but I don't have the number 
here.
<Sirilyan> hello, holi.  yes, *that* Fishman.  any othjer questions?
<Ogmios> Hi Holistic! Guess who's here ??
<lrkrchyk> hi holistic!
<Holistic> sirilyan: nah, i can read!  ;>
<fishman> The Lonsome Squirrel is currently being converted 
from IBM Wheelwriter babble to word for windows and I will be 
downloading it on the net as a gift to ars.
<mirele> thank you , steven.
<mirele> that will be an impressive read.
<lrkrchyk> fish: we look very forward to it!
<fishman> Scientology always accused me of trying to make 
millions of dollars on the Lonesome Squirrel.  Not true, I just 
would like it to be available to everyone to read if they want to 
for free.
<fishman> P.S. It was always available for free in the Fishman / 
Geertz case because it was a court document; but no one ever 
checked it out.  They were interested in my Declaration.  
<fishman> I look forward to posting it.  My friends in Holland will 
be helping me with that project.
<Ogmios> Fishman; What size is it ?? (Could put it up on my web 
page).
<fishman> It is 1164 pages.  Not small enough for one small 
posting, I am afraid.  It spans my 11 years in Scientology.
<mirele> hmmm. wow. large.
<Sirilyan> fishman: publish it as a decalogy after you pass away. 
:)
<fishman> I wrote it while I was on house arrest awaiting prison, 
as a project for Dr. Richard Ofshe.  It shows the process of how I 
evolved through Scientology and all of the craziness that went 
with it.  I Dead Agented myself a lot, so Milne will not have too 
much
<fishman> of a big job with it.
<fishman> I won't wait that long.  Anyway, Hubbard already did 
that.
<mirele> say, steven, did you ever meet or hear of Koos Nolst 
Trenite, The Inspector?  It's said he was OSA.
<fishman> I saw that he posted Impact Issue 29, which was an 
article Scientology favorably printed about me when I was in.  If 
he was OSA, he would not have done that.
<mirele> he believes he's auditing LRH.
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<mirele> he's a kook.
<bivalve> Steve, do you have independent confirmation from any 
OT8's that the document in your Declaration is authentic?
<fishman> Scientology has said I was never a member.  Yet I was 
featured in Impact 26 and 29 and my auditing and case level 
were written up, in contrary to their perjurious statements in 
court.
<bivalve> The OT8 document, that is
<fishman> I have heard stories about this koos.  Karin Spaink told 
me.
<bivalve> Koos claims to have deposed DM
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<mirele> hello, lance.
<Llance> afternoon all
<Holistic> hey llance
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<fishman> My strategy will be directed to taking Miscavige's 
deposition in every proceeding, to produce original OT level 
documents and valid copyright transfers.  I think OSA knows 
that, and that is why they are all in a state of shock.
<mirele> steven: very good strategy.
*** Mr_Ammo (ammo@xs1.xs4all.nl) has joined #scientology
<fishman> I recently asked Moxon (OSA attorney) about that 
strange OT IX document going around.  I wanted to know if he 
would claim it or not under copyright.  Have not gotten his 
answer yet.
<bivalve> Steven you certainly know how to enturbulate a guy.
* Llance sits and listens to fishman
<bivalve> :)
<fishman> They have to either take responsibility for these secret 
documents or stop the harassment.
<mirele> are you representing yourself (going pro se, that is)?  Or 
do you have counsel?
<fishman> I also learned (the hard way) that whenever encircled 
by a gang of OSA people or called on the phone in the middle of 
the night, just start reciting OT III.  They can't confront it.
<bivalve> Better than kryptonite
<mirele> steven: that's a really good thing to remember!
* mirele makes note of that for her next Scientology raid.
<fishman> I still have no counsel, but still looking.  I wish Graham 
Berry would quit the Lewis D'Amato firm (blackmailed by 
Scientology attorney Quinn and Eugene Ingram) and then he 
would represent me.  He is still the very best.
<mirele> hmmm.  Too bad.
<fishman> I still have problems with the junk mail campaign, 
receiving 500 letters of unwanted advertising every day at 
home.  The post office won't investigate because it does not 
cost money.
* Sirilyan must leave.  who's continuing the log?
<mirele> I think lrkr is.
<mirele> fishman: they won't investigate because they make 
money from it.
<lrkrchyk> i'm logging, yes ...
<mirele> <the post office, that is>
<Sirilyan> okay, mir.. in any case, steve, it was good to meet you, 
i've been amazed and awestruck at the guts you've shown.  
fight the good fight, man.
* Mr_Ammo is away: All messages will be logged...
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<fishman> Yes, but the junk mail campaign is industrial terrorism. 
 It hurts the environment.  It wastes enough paper to depopulate 
a national forest.  It is a disgusting thing they are doing.
<bivalve> Steven, and watch your brake lines...
<fishman> Thank you for your friendship and kind words, Sirilyan.
<mirele> fishman:  maybe this is a way to get press in the USA.
<lrkrchyk> fish: they're like a bunch of kids sending pizzas to your 
house round the clock ..
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<mirele> this is the sort of thing that some of those magazines 
like People go for.
<fishman> Well, they are childish, but the Fair Game Law is very 
much alive.
<mirele> but I guess they're too busy kissing the asses of Scieno 
celebrities.
<Holistic> steven: have you tried getting off the mailing lists by 
sending mail to the Direct Marketing Association?  it would 
probably cut the mail in half, at least.
<mirele> lrkr: sending pizzas to your opponent is a time-honored 
political technique down in Texas.
<lrkrchyk> fish: yes. they're bullies, through and through ...
<fishman> Dr. Geertz's wheels were already tampered with.  They 
loosened the lug nuts on his wheels.  They killed his dog.  He is 
also being harassed.  They copied down the license plates of 
his patients.
<lrkrchyk> mir: :>
<lrkrchyk> another dead dog? what the hell *is* wuth pets? 
<mirele> lrkr: you know that I'd be really upset if someone got to 
one of my cats...that's why.
<fishman> But now we are fighting back against Eugene Ingram.  
He has an outstanding warrant in Hillsborough County, Florida.  
Dr. Geertz is getting a copy of it and will notify the California 
State Attorney so they can extradite him.
<lrkrchyk> mir: me too. it's just *so* low ...
<mirele> besides, they can't send you to prison for killing kitties.
<Ogmios> Lrkr; Could simply be that ppl sometimes attach to their 
pets, and CoGreed is trying to get to those ppl by harming the 
pets...
<mirele> but it has the same emotional effect as killing a child.
<fishman> They also terrorized my daughter while I was in the 
halfway house by cutting up a dead rabbit and leaving it in front 
of my doorstep.  My expert witness in the criminal case, CAN 
activist Dr. Margaret Singer, had dead rats left on her doorstep 
twice.
<mirele> scum...terrorists...cretins.
<fishman> My daughter took our three cats to college with her; we 
were afraid for their safety as well.
<Llance> unbelievable, simply beyond words.
<mirele> steven:wow.
<lrkrchyk> mir : ... scientologists.
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<fishman> I live it every day.  Quite never get used to it, however.
<Ogmios> Hi alerma! Guess WHo's here ??
<fishman> hello, arnie.
<bivalve> Arnie Lerma, meet Steven Fishman in Holland
<lrkrchyk> hey arnie!
* mirele is feeding Zoe macaroni and cheese right now.  Amazing 
what that cat will eat.
<alerma> afternoon ladies & gents. What was name of TV show on 
this evening?
<lrkrchyk> (what is this, andy milne's worst nightmare?)
<Llance> hello arnie :)
<mirele> Alerma: The Fishman Hour.
<fishman> In Holland, Channel 2, the Today Show.
* Llance is glad he logged in tonight
<Ogmios> Lrkr; Probably :)
<alerma> Steve, !
<fishman> In Dutch it is called 2 Vandaag (2 Today)
<alerma> Well how-de-doo small virtual world!
<fishman> It ran tonight at 6:23 PM Dutch time.  Try to get a copy 
of it, Arnie.
* lrkrchyk has to idle ... if i drop off, someone be sure and start 
logging ...
<alerma> There is as show in US I am told, this evening, anybody 
know about that one?
<rnewman> sorry, I've been distracted, if anyone /msg'd me I 
didn't get it.  is this being logged?
<mirele> ron it is, by lrkr.
<fishman> It is important for your case too.  Leisa Goodman 
admitted that I was her enemy in a covert way when she said, 
"he (Fishman) is certainly not our friend.  He has proven that...)
<lrkrchyk> rn: i'm logging it.
<mirele> but she has to idle,  can someone else log?
<lrkrchyk> mir: i can keep logging ...
* Llance is logging, but it will only be partial
<lrkrchyk> just if i disappear, someone start.
<fishman> Which show in the US?
<rnewman> some show called "A Current Affair" tonight, but I have 
no idea what it is.  It's an NBC show at 7:30 PST.
<bivalve> I'll log.  I missed a bit earlier when I had to switch 
servers
<lrkrchyk> it's a tabloid tv show .. really cruddy ....
<mirele> lrkr has it about right.
<fishman> Did the news of the Dutch Protest reach TV in the 
united states?
<bivalve> Ron It's a syndicated show I believe.  Different 
networks in diff markets
* lrkrchyk has the complete thing logged so far, if anyone wants a 
copy, or if someone (ron?) wants it for a website, email me ...
<rnewman> not that i know of
<Holistic> ron: it's syndicated quite a bit.  i think it shows up late 
at night wher i am at.
<fishman> A Current Affair is a major show, like Inside Edition and 
Hard Copy.
<mirele> fishman: the big news here in Utah is our stupid 
congresswoman, so , no it didn't hit here.
<fishman> They do investigative reporting quite well.
<rnewman> i will definitely want this for my web page.  For that 
matter, Fishman might want it for his too.
<fishman> Yes, it is a good remembrance.  I don't know how to 
access this chat page at home from America Online.
<lrkrchyk> okay, fishman, ron -- i'll send you both the log; anyone 
else, email me or /msg me with your address ...
<rnewman> there is no reason to use American Online for any 
purpose.
<mirele> steven: maybe you could get another provider <saying 
this gently>
<mirele> AOL sucks.
<fishman> I am also on netcom.  My e-mail there is 
[deleted]@ix.netcom.com.
<rnewman> here on the Net, this is called an "IRC channel", not a 
"chat page"
<fishman> I just received some message that a Van Meerten 
called me here at xs4all and wanted to talk to me.  The staff 
thinks he may be OSA, so I am not taking the call.  
<cor1> i just put steven on my irc window at my workstation, im at 
the workstation of a collegue :)
<mirele> heh, very interesting.
<Ogmios> IRC Stands for Internet Relay Chaos/Chat :)
<fishman> Do you know if netcom or microsoft network has links 
to irc?
<mirele> Og: hehehehe.
<alerma> Judher KAne issued an order yesterday that everything 
is to go back to FACTNet..will be online this evening, he 
continued Brinkema's mood, slamming clams arguments ...
<lrkrchyk> fishman: yep, you can get here from netcom ...
<mirele> fishman: netcom, yes; microsoft, why would you use it?
<bivalve> Netcom users are on IRC, I believe
<fishman> I am also on mirosoft as [deleted]@msn.com
<alerma> judher = judge
<mirele> alerma: someone sent that to me this morning, I was real 
happy to see it.
<Ogmios> Mir; When the net is especially laggy and splitty, the 
first expansion becomes true :)
<rnewman> alerma: Rocky Mountain News said not quite 
everything
<fishman> I heard the good news about the return of the seized 
materials to FACTnet.  Will they return everything to Lawrence?
<rnewman> There is no reason to use the Microsoft network 
either.
<Holistic> steven: i am under the impression that microsoft is 
closing MSN, so netcom would be your best bet.
<mirele> but isn't judge kane keeping some of the stuff?
<fishman> I heard that the OT levels were not being returned. Is 
that true?
<lrkrchyk> get someone on netcom to tell you how to irc from there 
...
<mirele> I thought judge k was keeping some of the stuff.
<lrkrchyk> i;m sure they'll be willing to help.
<mirele> steve: that's what I heard as well.
<fishman> I will.  Thanks, lrkrchyk.
<rnewman> steve, where do you live?  there is almost certainly a 
local ISP in your area, use them.
<fishman> Lawrence will let us know what he does not get back.
<rnewman> http://www.cybercom.net/~rnewman/scientology/media/
rocky-mtn-news-12.13.95 sez that Factnet doesn't get the OT 
docs back.
<fishman> In Holland, I do not think they will try to sue xs4all and 
Karin Spaink again, because the public opinion is rallying 
around them.  However, on TV tonight, Leisa Goodman 
threatened a new lawsuit, which would be very bad for them 
here in Holland.
<mirele> fishman: who would they sue and why?
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<BoPeep> hey kids
<gRATE> hOWDY y'ALL.
<fishman> They want to sue individual posters of the OT Levels, 
because they do not want to address the issue of the 
responsibility of Internet providers at this point.
<rnewman> who would they sue?  Sounds like we haven't yet 
broken down Leisa's defenses, what can we do to enturbulate 
her a bit more?
<mirele> fishman: all 89 or 90 peple?
<mirele> they're crazy.
<rnewman> if they sue someone else, then that person will be the 
next Karin Spaink.
<lrkrchyk> fishman: do you think there is any chance at all that 
they will back down from the net, as an enemy?
<fishman> The latest news I heard was that they were going to 
use the copyrights of NEP (New Era Publications) instead of the 
California copyrights, which are defective, as I have been 
saying all along.  However, there may be a weak link in the 
chain even with the
<fishman> NEP copyrights, if they exist (I havent seen them).
<mirele> fishman: get in touch with diane richardson or charles 
oriez.  Both of them have done research into the copyrights.
<rnewman> they cant' really think that Karin is going to turn 
around and ignore this just because she isn't being sued 
herself.
<mirele> they can look the New Era ones up probably faster than 
anyone.
<fishman> They may sue key people, not all 104 of them.  They 
will do their research this time and not sue influential Dutch 
writers like Karin Spaink who is well loved and known in 
Holland.  Suing her was crazy because she knows everyone in 
the media.
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<rnewman> yeah but is Karin going to say, "you're not suing me 
any more so I no longer care"?  I reeeallly doubt that.
<lrkrchyk> hey sisterC!
<SisterC> hi all
<fishman> I will check with Diane and Charles.  Will you also, 
Arnie?  This is their Achilles' heel, these copyrights, in both of 
our cases as well.
<SisterC> lrkr!
<mirele> but steven: wouldn't karin say, "Hey, I did the same 
thing, why aren't you suing me?"
<lrkrchyk> sisterC, meet fishman, the man behind the legend :>
<mirele> sisterC, hello!
<fishman> No, Karin has already pledged to include herself into 
any new suits.  So that will be a fruitless tactic.
<fishman> Hello, SisterC
<SisterC> Bloody hell! Mr Fishman. This is indeed a pleasure :)
<fishman> Nice to meet you
<lrkrchyk> they just aren't used to the idea of people sticking 
together ...
<mirele> sisterc is Sister Clara.
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<murdoog> hi all
<mirele> re murdoog
<fishman> That is why the Internet is so dangerous for them.  Yet, 
they can never control it.  
<murdoog> hi mirele
<gRATE> fishman:  Can't say it's a pleasure, since I don't what 
you're a legend for, but...
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<lrkrchyk> fish: but can they back off now? 
<fishman> Hubbard should have gone ahead in time (like he 
claimed he knew how to do, and destroyed the Internet as 
"damage control" before it was created, if he had real OT 
powers.
<BoPeep> hey doog
<murdoog> howdy peep
<Ogmios> gRATE; Ever heard of the Fishman Affidavit ?? He is the 
guy behind it...
<cor1> we're going to dinner..
<rnewman> steve: are you going to put the affidavit on your own 
page at xs4all?
<fishman> Well, I have to go now.  But I really enjoyed this chat 
and I like this irc channel.  I'll get on it again as soon as I find 
out how to do it.
<murdoog> l8r fishman
-> *cor1* bon appetit and thanks a million ... <hugs>
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<BoPeep> bye fishman
<gRATE> Ogmios:  Can't say I have...  I'm rather new to these 
parts (parts being the Net vs. Co$ thing)
<mirele> bye steven, nice to have chatted with you.
<ColLingus> howdy!
<lrkrchyk> bye fishman! nice meeting you and come back!
<lrkrchyk> hey col!
<mirele> give `em hell.
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<mirele> col: say bye to stevein fishman.
<gRATE> fishman:  hAVE a good one.
<SisterC> Nice to meet you at last. Have a nice evening.
<bivalve> Bye fishman!
* Ogmios wishes the best of luck to Fishman!
<fishman> I will be posting the Lonesome Squirrel.  That is my 
next big project.
<Ogmios> C ya l8r Fishman!
<rnewman> bye Steve!
<bivalve> fishman, just ask about how to do it.  People will be 
glad to get you on IRC again
<fishman> Bye, and thanks again for your good wishes and it was 
nice to speak to everyone together.  
<bivalve> Best of luck!
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<lrkrchyk> let me know where to send the log ...
<ColLingus> hi fishman!
<mirele> have a good time in the nederlands!
<lrkrchyk> anyone who wants it, that is ...
<rnewman> he's just leaving, say hi quickly
<BoPeep> bbl
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<gRATE> Irkchyk:  What log?
* lrkrchyk *really* must idle now ... /msg me with your address if 
you want the log.
<fishman> I'm going now.  But thanks again!
*** fishman is now known as cor2
<cor2> dinner! (got my workstation back ;)