The following is a series of postings from Dick Cleek transcribing parts of a December 22, 1985, edition of the CBS television show "60 Minutes". CBS is one of the "Big Three" commercial networks in the United States, and "60 Minutes" is a generally well-regarded and very popular weekly newsmagazine. -- Ron N. ------------- From: Dick Cleek Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: 60 Minutes - LRH Date: 18 May 1995 18:30:26 GMT Organization: University of Wisconsin Centers Message-ID: <3pg3o2$2fq@uwm.edu> 60 Minutes -LRH1966 MW Mike Wallace LRH I was surprised by the voice...I couldn't detect charisma? OG Omar Garrison The show opens with a general Mike Wallace statement followed by an insipid statement by John Travolta. (Please don't anyone ask me to transcribe that, yuuch!) and then... MW:...a 1966 interview produced by the CoS one of the few glimpses anyone will ever get of the man. LRH: Man IS asleep. He IS hypnotized and Scientology reverses/reverts? the process and you make him wake up and he gradually gets more and more alert and he's more and more wide awake and his IQ rises higher and higher and he's more and more capable of knowing what's going on about him. There follows a Mike Wallace statement about the CoS claims of government harrassment, the FDA's conclusion that the E-Meter was a medical device and not a religious artifact and the fact that both the FBI and IRS had investigated both the church and LRH without formal charges ever being brought against LRH. There follows a couple of quotes from Omar Garrison, commissioned by the Church to write LRH's biography, about LRH, his "ardent ambition to clear the planet" and be a "friend to man." ............................. Dick Cleek ---------- From: Dick Cleek Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: 60 Minutes - Paulette Cooper Date: 18 May 1995 18:56:04 GMT Message-ID: <3pg585$2fq@uwm.edu> 60 Minutes - Paulette Cooper MW Mike Wallace PC Paulette Cooper MW: For instance, in 1980 we interviewed Paulette Cooper. She had written a book critical of Scientology, so to try to silence her, the so-called Guardian's Office of the Church cooked up a scheme to steal Cooper's stationary and make it appear that she had sent the church two bomb threats, a crime she did not commit. PC: And as a result I was arrested. I was indicted on three counts. I faced up to 15 years in jail if I was convicted. The whole ordeal fighting these charges took eight months. It cost me $19,000 in legal fees. I went into such a depression, I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't write. I went down to 83 pounds. Finally I took and passes a sodium pentathol, or truth serum, test and the government dropped the charges against me in 1975. MW: Another church plot against Cooper was called Operation Freak Out. Intended to get her placed in a mental institution until she stopped writing about Scientology. Church officials even launched a grafitti campaign against Cooper. PC: They put my name up on walls in New York City where I live, with my phone number, so people would call me. They put my name on pornographic mailing lists, so that I would get all kinds of disgusting mail. You see, for years I was saying that these types of things were going on and people thought 'Well, what is she talking about, this is a church?' And finally, after eleven years I see that everything I said was true and that Scientology turned out to be worse than anything I ever said or even imagined. MW: Paulette Cooper has since come to a legal settlement with the church. .................................... Dick Cleek --------------- From: Dick Cleek Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: 60 Minutes-Laurel Sullivan Date: 18 May 1995 18:05:14 GMT Message-ID: <3pg28q$2fq@uwm.edu> 60 Minutes - Dec.21, 1985 transcript of portion involving Laurel Sullivan MW Mike Wallace LS Laurel Sullivan this portion follows the Paulette Cooper interview... MW: But, more recently, listen to what this woman said happened to her after she left Scientology and began to speak out. LS: I have been harrassed. I have been sued twice. I have been followed. I have had people at my workplace try to get me fired, who were Scientologists. I have had private investigators go to my former employers and tell them I was a missing person and my parents were looking for me, to find my address. MW: Laurel Sullivan was for eight years a personal public relations officer to LRH himself. Because she so admired the man, she says, she ignored the negative aspects of Scientology. LS: I chose not to know things. There are things that don't quite add up, that , when he tells you something, you believe it. MW: Sullivan says that thousands of Scientologists are turning a blind eye to much of what goes on in Scientology. LS: They have chosen not to read the press about Scientology, if it's negative. They have chosen not to question themselves. They have chosen not to question, Why am I here? ......................................... Dick Cleek ------------ From: Dick Cleek Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: 60 Minutes -Garrison/Cooley Date: 19 May 1995 15:21:41 GMT Message-ID: <3pid25$odd@uwm.edu> 60 Minutes Garrison/Cooley MW=Mike Wallace OG=Omar Garrison EC=Earl Cooley after Laurel Sullivan segment MW: Even Omar Garrison, onetime a Scientologist supporter has had second thoughts. OG: I think at the moment that the organization, the cult, is in the hands of the most fanatical followers, adherents of Mr.Hubbard who you could equate with followers of Ayatollah Khomeini. -------- after Heber Jentsch segment OG: Everyone who has taken these courses has come out with a superego and with a truculent, if you will, a truculent view of anyone who dares disagree because the person who disagrees is perceived as a suppressive person... MW: an enemy.. OG: ...and must be dealt with. MW: And that's the gospel according to LRH. OG: That's the dark side of Scientology. MW: Omar Garrison set out to write the Hubbard biography. According to church legend Hubbard is a man of extraordinary accomplishment. But Garrison says that he has learned that there is less to Hubbard than has been painted over the years in church literature. MW: He fought in five theaters in WWII? OG: Not true. MW: He commanded a squadron of corvettes? OG: Not true. MW: He was crippled and blinded in war? OG: Not true. MW: He was the first casualty of the war? OG: Not true. MW: Flown home in the Secretary of the Navy's private plane? OG: (chuckling) Not true. [at this point the tape switches to Earl Cooley] EC: Are you aware of the fact that there are more than one set of military records on Mr.Hubbard? MW: Church attorney Earl Cooley says the official military records on LRH are actually false. EC: On..That his records, his military records, have been doctored? Are you aware of that? MW: By? EC: By God knows whom. MW: But there is more. MW: Is he an atomic or nuclear physicist? OG: Of course not. MW: Did he travel with Tibetan bandits? OG: I have no documentation and have never seen any in the extensive research that he did. EC: Legend, rumor grows up around any charismatic leader, any leader in the world and particularly any religious leader. MW: Attorney Earl Cooper says that if anyone exaggerated the credentials of the founder, it was overzealous Scientologists and not the man himself. EC: And if he were to spend his time attempting to refute every allegation made against him, good and bad, he would have no time to write the technology and to develop the philosophy that has helped millions and millions of people. --------------------------------- Dick Cleek -------------- From: Dick Cleek Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: 60 Minutes - Heber Jentsch Date: 18 May 1995 20:22:46 GMT Message-ID: <3pgaam$2fq@uwm.edu> 60 Minutes - Heber Jentsch MW Mike Wallace HJ Heber Jentsch overtalking each other, words missed [my comment] MW: The current church leadership has located the Scientology headquarters in LA. We wanted to know what they had to say. And the Scientologists, although unhappy with our report in 1980, finally agreed to an interview. But this time, the Scientologists, convinced that we were out to attack their church, arranged for several of their videotape cameras to be trained on us at all times during the session. Church President, the Rev.Heber Jentsch, had his attorney, Earl Cooley, sitting at his side and almost a hundred Scientologists were called in as witnesses. HJ: Scientology is the only road to total freedom, whether you agree with it or not, that is the truth. And HE has outlined the way to do it. [the HE was the first time I've ever heard the COMMAND voice used] MW: the...only...road...to...total...freedom [slowly] That's the only road? HJ: I said, the only road to TOTAL freedom. MW: Yes. What does that mean? only.road.to.total.freedom HJ: Oh, is there some word there you don't understand? MW: I..I..I don't understand the concept. I mean...what kind of freedom are we talking about? HJ: Spiritual freedom. MW: And, as for the founder, L.Ron Hubbard? HJ: I think he's probably one of the greatest men who ever lived. I think that what you see and hear are..all through this place are recognitions for what he has done in the area of drug rehabilitation, what he has done in areas of education, recognition of cities and mayors and governors and so forth and individuals whose lives have been changed. MW: But if Hubbard is a man of enlightenment, he is also a man who is obsessed with his perceived enemies. "Attack the attacker," he writes. "If Scientology is attacked on some vulnerable point, always find or manufacture enough threat to cause them to sue for peace. Always attack, don't ever defend." According to former church members, it is writing like this that inspired bizarre plots, like the ones against Paulette Cooper and numerous others. But when I put some of that to the Rev.Jentsch, he accused me of coming to the defense of Scientology's enemies. HJ: We say when Pearl Harbor happened, you'd be the first guy going over there to represent the Japanese cause he probably bruised his knee when he killed all those Americans. You'd say 'Oh, don't attack the attacker. ...just going to wipe you out, you know. Just a bunch of poor Japanese bombing ??? 3000 miles off course. Mike Wallace. That's great. That's real great rhetoric. MW: Then the Rev.Jentsch turned to the scriptures to try to convince us that we were taking things out of context. HJ: The Torah has said "If one comes to kill you, rise up and kill him first"...[he also quotes Exodus 2, 11:14 but I'm not typing that all in] I can just take it and turn it back to you and say 'You're a Jew, how do you respond to this thing?' I don't think that's fair. I think that is a DESPICABLE activity by anyone to take it out of context. And I can go through the whole bible and lift it out and make it look just as crazy, just as weird, as you're trying to do here. Whith millions and millions of word in print in a religion and you can take out two words or you can take out a sentence and you can somehow try to bring it down to that. MW: In the course of reporting this story it became apparent to us that the Rev.Jentsch is persuaded that 60 Minutes itself is somehow involved with others in a plot to destroy Scientology. HJ: You may not like our religion. You may try to castigate it. You may try to denigrate it. You may try to bring down the image of Mr.Hubbard, but you cannot change what has happened in the hearts and minds of every single Scientologist who has had benefit from the man and what he has done. MW: and, HJ: We're here. We're here after 60 Minutes disappears and the electrons are erased off the tape, we'll still be here. ............................ Dick Cleek ----------------- From: Dick Cleek Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: 60 Minutes-Homer Shomar Date: 18 May 1995 17:18:07 GMT Message-ID: <3pfvgf$qd4@uwm.edu> 60 Minutes - Dec.21, 1985 transcript of portion involving Homer Shomar MW Mike Wallace HS Homer Shomar This comes over halfway through the 20 minute segment and follows a discussion of LRH's writings: MW:...And has made millions and millions of dollars for L.Ron Hubbard, according to this man, Homer Shomar, who testified in court that as treasurer of a company called Author Services Inc. in Los Angeles he secretly channelled a fortune into the private overseas bank accounts of LRH. HS: His weekly income went from about $200,000 to up over a million dollars per week. MW: LRH himself was making a million dollars a week? HS: That's correct. MW: In 1982? HS: Right. and most of the money was coming out of the church. MW: Shomar says that the company he worked for billed the Church of Scientology for Hubbard's past research and that the money was then transferred into Swiss bank accounts. This despite public claims that Hubbard made only a paltry living from Scientology. And you knew this for a fact because you took part in the switching, if you will, of these funds to Switzerland? HS: Right, Plus we'd...I'd have the bank records set, you know the transfer, you know the transfer receipts from the bank that that money would be transferred. ............................ Dick Cleek -------------- From: Dick Cleek Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: 60 Minutes - Conclusion Date: 19 May 1995 19:00:19 GMT Message-ID: <3pips3$62i@uwm.edu> 60 Minutes - Conclusion MW=Mike Wallace HJ=Heber Jentsch MW: What about the credibility of Homer Shomar and the other former Scientologists who are now speaking out? the Scientologists claim that those former church members were purged from the church, in effect thrown out, after an internal power struggle. According to the church's leaders they are all disgruntled and have personal gripes and so the church says, they are lying. Sullivan, Shomar, Garrison and others have all been called as witnesses in court about their experience with Scientology and according to the Rev.Jentsch the words of California Superior Court Judge, Paul Breckenridge, who presided over one of those cases in which the Scientologists were embroiled. In that case the Scientologists did not testify to all they told us in this report. Still, Judge Breckenridge found Sullivan, Shomar and Garrison to be extremely persuasive, to be credible witnesses. And I read further from the judge's opinion: "The organization is clearly schizophrenic and paranoid. And, this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder, LRH. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background, and achievements." The Rev.Jentsch says that he has investigated what was the basis for the judge's decision. HJ: I traced back where that came from, this whole schizophrenia, paranoid concept that he has. It came from Interpol. At that time the president of Interpol was a former SS officer, Paul Dikoff (?) AND TO FIND THAT JUDGE BRECKENRIDGE QUOTED A NAZI SS OFFICER AS THE AUTHORITY on Scientology, I find unconscionable. You may support it. I can't support that in any way, shape or form. Wallace wraps up with some general statements and the strains of "America the Beautiful" in the background. ............................................ Dick Cleek